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	<title>Comments on: On Merchant Silicon and Lawnmowing</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/2009/10/on-merchant-silicon-and-lawnmowing/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/2009/10/on-merchant-silicon-and-lawnmowing/</link>
	<description>Data Centers, Virtualization, and Cloud Computing</description>
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		<title>By: Etherealmind</title>
		<link>http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/2009/10/on-merchant-silicon-and-lawnmowing/comment-page-1/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>Etherealmind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/?p=143#comment-229</guid>
		<description>The pendulum of progress swings widely between these two technologies. That is, at a given point in time custom silicon may have an edge but some new development such as smaller fab size or or better chip design software might mean that merchant silicon gains an edge before the new spin of custom silicon. 

Frankly, who cares. If you think that the engine inside your car affects your ability to get to the shop to buy beer, you really don&#039;t understand the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The pendulum of progress swings widely between these two technologies. That is, at a given point in time custom silicon may have an edge but some new development such as smaller fab size or or better chip design software might mean that merchant silicon gains an edge before the new spin of custom silicon. </p>
<p>Frankly, who cares. If you think that the engine inside your car affects your ability to get to the shop to buy beer, you really don&#8217;t understand the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Gourlay</title>
		<link>http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/2009/10/on-merchant-silicon-and-lawnmowing/comment-page-1/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Gourlay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/?p=143#comment-227</guid>
		<description>You know what changed my friend - I think more than anything I have seen in some vendors that core product line investment levels get funding in almost a sine-wave fashion.  Once the product ships then the funding levels are reduced or flat-lined and then the team is never funded to stay current on ASIC processes and such.  Over time you have products with very old ASIC architectures which end up taking a lot of power for little performance gain.  

What really scared me into an awakening is seeing the investment levels &#039;pure play&#039; networking silicon  companies like Broadcom, Fulcrum, Marvell, Dune, etc are putting into their chipsets.  They are using very cutting edge processes, 45nm etc, and doing so with 100&#039;s and sometimes 1000&#039;s of engineers working on the chipsets.  This level of investment results in extremely capable silicon that is designed with quite flexible packet processing engines that can be re-purposed for many different networking applications.  It&#039;s not a one-size fits all, but with the maturation of the market there are pretty capable silicon systems available that are quite programmable and solve a good chunk of the networking use-cases.

dg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know what changed my friend &#8211; I think more than anything I have seen in some vendors that core product line investment levels get funding in almost a sine-wave fashion.  Once the product ships then the funding levels are reduced or flat-lined and then the team is never funded to stay current on ASIC processes and such.  Over time you have products with very old ASIC architectures which end up taking a lot of power for little performance gain.  </p>
<p>What really scared me into an awakening is seeing the investment levels &#8216;pure play&#8217; networking silicon  companies like Broadcom, Fulcrum, Marvell, Dune, etc are putting into their chipsets.  They are using very cutting edge processes, 45nm etc, and doing so with 100&#8242;s and sometimes 1000&#8242;s of engineers working on the chipsets.  This level of investment results in extremely capable silicon that is designed with quite flexible packet processing engines that can be re-purposed for many different networking applications.  It&#8217;s not a one-size fits all, but with the maturation of the market there are pretty capable silicon systems available that are quite programmable and solve a good chunk of the networking use-cases.</p>
<p>dg</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Gourlay</title>
		<link>http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/2009/10/on-merchant-silicon-and-lawnmowing/comment-page-1/#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Gourlay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/?p=143#comment-226</guid>
		<description>Oh I am sure there are some out there lurking for you to find my friend!  Had a great vacation - btw am in your neck of the woods next week if you&#039;re around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh I am sure there are some out there lurking for you to find my friend!  Had a great vacation &#8211; btw am in your neck of the woods next week if you&#8217;re around.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Gourlay</title>
		<link>http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/2009/10/on-merchant-silicon-and-lawnmowing/comment-page-1/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Gourlay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/?p=143#comment-225</guid>
		<description>Well said Brian!  I figured I needed to &#039;eat crow&#039; before too many other people found out about my lawn mowing past and decided to mow it for me...  

Many things have come full-circle, although its also good to see some innovation also being delivered by vendors to customers in networking - whether requiring silicon innovation, or software, or protocol.  One area I am personally very interested in is improving the operational/administrative experience of networking products -- I like adding things there that make life easier and simplify complex workflows.  Think there is still a lot of room to improve there.

dg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said Brian!  I figured I needed to &#8216;eat crow&#8217; before too many other people found out about my lawn mowing past and decided to mow it for me&#8230;  </p>
<p>Many things have come full-circle, although its also good to see some innovation also being delivered by vendors to customers in networking &#8211; whether requiring silicon innovation, or software, or protocol.  One area I am personally very interested in is improving the operational/administrative experience of networking products &#8212; I like adding things there that make life easier and simplify complex workflows.  Think there is still a lot of room to improve there.</p>
<p>dg</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Gracely</title>
		<link>http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/2009/10/on-merchant-silicon-and-lawnmowing/comment-page-1/#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Gracely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/?p=143#comment-224</guid>
		<description>Doug,

You knew this would eventually come back to bite you, it always does in networking architectures :)  Jump in the way-back machine and see Welfleet distributed processing vs. Cisco 7000s with a single RP...and then Cisco moved to VIPs and distributed processing (GSR, etc.).  Kalpana originally did cut-through switching, until networks melted because of bad CRCs, so we went back to fast bridging (aka Store-Forward Switching) and now I hear that people want to go back to cut-through again for latency.  Somewhere I&#039;m sure there are people at Cisco that are upset about the original Granite K1 chip that was considered impossible to manufacture, and Andy has probably taken those lessons along to Arista.

It&#039;s all cyclical.  What you bash today will be what you&#039;re pitching in 24 months.  Just remember Gracely&#039;s Theorem of Technology - &quot;There are no great new ideas, just reapplication of old ideas on newer CPUs and bigger bandwidth&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug,</p>
<p>You knew this would eventually come back to bite you, it always does in networking architectures <img src='http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   Jump in the way-back machine and see Welfleet distributed processing vs. Cisco 7000s with a single RP&#8230;and then Cisco moved to VIPs and distributed processing (GSR, etc.).  Kalpana originally did cut-through switching, until networks melted because of bad CRCs, so we went back to fast bridging (aka Store-Forward Switching) and now I hear that people want to go back to cut-through again for latency.  Somewhere I&#8217;m sure there are people at Cisco that are upset about the original Granite K1 chip that was considered impossible to manufacture, and Andy has probably taken those lessons along to Arista.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all cyclical.  What you bash today will be what you&#8217;re pitching in 24 months.  Just remember Gracely&#8217;s Theorem of Technology &#8211; &#8220;There are no great new ideas, just reapplication of old ideas on newer CPUs and bigger bandwidth&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Carrie</title>
		<link>http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/2009/10/on-merchant-silicon-and-lawnmowing/comment-page-1/#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 00:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/?p=143#comment-223</guid>
		<description>I guess a healthy mix makes sense, but then again I don&#039;t outsource my yard work...
Well-written post, DG!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess a healthy mix makes sense, but then again I don&#8217;t outsource my yard work&#8230;<br />
Well-written post, DG!</p>
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		<title>By: Alistair</title>
		<link>http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/2009/10/on-merchant-silicon-and-lawnmowing/comment-page-1/#comment-222</link>
		<dc:creator>Alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.douglasgourlay.com/blog/?p=143#comment-222</guid>
		<description>Nice retort.  I thought I might get an e-mail back but who knew that you had so much time to blog?  And you&#039;re just back from vacation?

I wonder what other old post of yours I can find???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice retort.  I thought I might get an e-mail back but who knew that you had so much time to blog?  And you&#8217;re just back from vacation?</p>
<p>I wonder what other old post of yours I can find???</p>
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